WSW - Podcast Job Costing Series Part 1: Foundations and Fit
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[00:00:00]
Introduction and Welcome
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Dan DeLong: welcome to another workshop Wednesday, all about casual conversations for serious workflows brought to you by school of bookkeeping.com, where it allows you to keep learning QuickBooks your way. And as you may have noticed, we have our job costing ninja joining us back again.[00:01:00]
If the stream looks a little wonky. Let us know in the, in, in the comments, wherever you happen to be watching, whether it's YouTube or or on Facebook. Before we went live, things just started to act weird, so hopefully the stream looks okay and our hands are and mouths are aligned with the words that are coming out of them.
But this is the penalty of doing a live webinar Shauna?
Shanna Quinn: Yes, I am showing green right now as opposed to red where we were before. So hopefully,
Dan DeLong: yeah, hopefully it's doing okay. Yes.
Series Overview: Job Costing
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Dan DeLong: So we are starting a new series, so for the next seven weeks.
The holidays. You've got via and Shana here doing or Shana and I am sorry. My, [00:02:00] my English is bad.
But, for Shana and I are gonna be doing a series all about job costing. Which will take us up to the end of this year. Buckle up. We're we're gonna, we're gonna be, talking about various topics that all have to deal with job costing. And we had done a like an introduction or an overview, a couple months ago, was it?
Shanna Quinn: Yep.
Dan DeLong: And so I'm gonna be putting that into the. In, into the chat in the comments. So wherever you're watching, if it happens it, you can watch that overview of job costing in over there, later. Because this is, this series is gonna [00:03:00] go through, a little bit more deeper dive as far as doing the job costing inside of, QuickBooks online specifically because Shauna, your firm, is now solely on, on QuickBooks online, right?
Shanna Quinn: Yes. We are a good move, I feel like for accessibility for our clients and all of that, but there are some tricks. That have to get done behind the scenes and certain tools are used in different ways.
Dan DeLong: Excuse me.
Clearing Unbilled Expenses
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Dan DeLong: Before we get into kind of the meat and potatoes of what we're gonna be talking about today, which is all about just the foundation and fit, for job costing and QuickBooks online.
We had done back on Shauna's birthday back in May, we had done a workshop [00:04:00] about, it's my 21st handling. Yeah. Yeah. We had done a a workshop on clearing out unbuild purchases or unbuild expenses when you're coming from desktop, QuickBooks Desktop to QuickBooks Online. It's a big thing. And in the project that Shauna and I were working on, it was a huge thing, right?
Shanna Quinn: Yes. Very very overwhelmingly huge. Because of how long they had been in business and how much history we were working with. And the billables. Yeah.
Dan DeLong: Yeah. So basically just to summarize, when you're coming from desktop to online a lot of times the. Billable expense. Even if you've never billed for it, as it comes [00:05:00] over to QuickBooks online, it becomes billable again.
And and clearing those out is is quite an issue to do however. QuickBooks and Intuit in their infinite wisdom has increased or enhanced the QuickBooks online desktop conversion process to include a wizard now and. In that wizard before what it would do is it would give you a checkbox or a check mark or checklist.
There we go. It would not give you a check.
It was a checklist to, to say, Hey, if you're doing payroll, do these things in QuickBooks before you do your conversion. If you've got. Billable expenses, make sure that they're marked and things like that. Now a wizard comes up inside of QuickBooks Desktop and actually [00:06:00] gives you the option just to click an easy button that says, Hey, would you like to mark these billable expenses, unbillable?
And you can do all of them. You can select specific ones. I just am in the process of converting another one that had 110,000 billable expenses and it marked them off, in, in one fell swoop. So it, it's pretty amazing that new function. So I wanted to mention that I put the clearing out billable expenses.
I just realized I misspelled it. It's clearing out billable expenses, not clearing our billable expenses.
Shanna Quinn: I knew what you
Dan DeLong: meant, the penalty of doing a live workshop and trying to type at the same time that's, in there so that you can take a look at it if you need to. [00:07:00] So I wanted to let you know that there's an update to that.
Yeah,
yeah. It's, it's pretty awesome when you don't have to do all that extra heavy lifting, as we talked about for probably about 45 minutes, during that workshop,
Shanna Quinn: which was only
Dan DeLong: a nice, easy,
Shanna Quinn: a tiny bit of the time. It actually took
Dan DeLong: Took most of most of a weekend.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah.
QuickBooks Online Job Costing Features
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Dan DeLong: Let's talk about the foundation and the fit for, for job costing in QuickBooks Online. Now Shauna, can you, can you talk about some of the features and functions inside of QuickBooks that help, facilitate the the ability to do job costing in QuickBooks online?
Shanna Quinn: [00:08:00] Yeah, of course. Just a quick sort of listing down, obviously you've got the new project function that came out several years ago.
Within that we utilize the ability to categorize expense and income to a proper cost code, which is obviously then mapped properly through the items listing to the proper income or COGS account. And then the related project that those expenses and income are for. On top of that we are using for some of our customers or for some of our clients, we use sub customers instead of, projects.
We do that for the clients that have that are building on their own lots. So the project function doesn't really become helpful to them because the. Information is not falling on a p and l, which is what the project [00:09:00] assignments all in, the screenshots, the summaries of everything fall on that project, on that p and l side.
So we use the sub customers for our clients, like I said, that do build on their own lots. We use the class function a lot. We use that for if it's going to be an expense since we mainly are supporting our special trades. Expenses that were being absorbed if something has to be back charged and they're not using it.
These are functions that we use in QuickBook for clients that aren't utilizing a third party job costing product. So these are just ways that we're utilizing some of these features to be able to pull out the information that we need to be able to provide that feedback and information on how jobs performing.
We've had a lot of damages from certain vendors. So we're, we pull all of that and use that class function as that. With those reports, the back charges, especially if [00:10:00] we've got a client or a vendor that's constantly, we're having a back charge on because they've come in and maybe they've done drywall, but in process they've maybe caused damage to something else that we have to now go back and fix.
So we track all of that. Through those class function and utilized for that.
Projects vs. Sub Customers
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Dan DeLong: So you mentioned sub customers and projects and as far as QuickBooks Online is concerned they look the same Yeah. On the, customer list. They're indented underneath. Talk a little bit about the different distinction between a project and a sub customer.
Shanna Quinn: The project side, if you, when you create a project, there is a specific project functionality within QuickBooks Plus and Advanced. You can easily log into that and then it gives you an [00:11:00] overall sort of a quick snapshot of how those individual jobs are performing. As mentioned before, it pulls only the data that comes from your p and l.
So it's going to show what you've invoiced, it's gonna show what you collected. It is gonna show, obviously related expenses You can set up cost associated to your payroll. So it's not your billable rate, it's the actual, here's what our cost is associated to the hours that we're put through for our employees, which that's a really cool function as long as you're utilizing it.
And utilizing it properly, which sometimes it, certain things fall off of that when you're coming up with the cost. So that is important. He said the same thing, both of them just.
So there's a, you could pull reports for it. [00:12:00] So you could go to the report side, do your balance sheet by sub customer and pull it from there. As I mentioned, I use that mainly for our clients that are building on their own lots. And then once that lot sells, then I can convert that sub customer over to a project.
So then they can go into their projects and see then how that sold home overall has performed. And then we can then easily track additional expenses from the punch list, from the warranty claims and potential other miscellaneous items that always come up after you are finished with a home and you've sold it, through that project platform.
Dan DeLong: Got it. Just. Choosing your own adventure is something that you wanna make sure that 'cause especially when you, 'cause you can't turn a project into a sub customer, but you can turn a sub customer into a project, right?
Shanna Quinn: [00:13:00] Yes. Yeah.
Dan DeLong: So it's a one way street. And choosing the right one at first is probably your best your best option, right?
Shanna Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. You want the project screen is an amazing quick glance tool. But if you are supporting clients where the majority of expenses and income fall on the balance sheet until it's sold, and then you wanna use that project, that, then that project functionality for a quick, hey, the owner can log in and say, or the project managers and say.
Here's how these jobs have fallen in completion. So it is it, otherwise, if you're using the project function, everything falls on the balance sheet. You're, there's not gonna be a lot of data there until that unit sells. So you might have a hundred units maybe for that home building client, [00:14:00] but until the house sells, there's no information accessible or easily trans, for you to read to see how things are going. Using it when you need to is best, but it is a great functionality that they've added. I have been hounding them about adding the balance sheet side, but not yet.
Dan DeLong: Yeah, and you were, you and I were both at into a connect last week. So I'm sure you gave them an earful when you were there.
Shanna Quinn: I may have written a letter or two.
Dan DeLong: And, and we were one of the things that they announced in, in last, coming in the, in the future unnamed timeline, with regards to into, and a Enterprise Suite is a [00:15:00] tractor edition of of QuickBook or Intuit, excuse me. 'cause QuickBooks does not. Exist in Intuit Enterprise Suite.
It's just the foundation of of the whole platform with regards to the finance side of things. But they are hoping to come out with a, contractor specific industry specific version of Intuit Enterprise Suite. And you turned to me immediately and I was like, but that doesn't help for those that need to see those job costs.
Things on the balance side of things, right?
Shanna Quinn: Yeah. It's still just very much like the project section in the QuickBooks Plus and Advanced. It was all from the p and l. So if you support clients that are home builders or even remodelers that maybe are dabbling a little bit and building specs or remodeling to flip [00:16:00] that information still doesn't get pulled over for that.
Nice. Snippet shot of how things are going, and how things are performing. So it's still. Lacking, and I'm not a very techie person, right? We're, I'm an accounting nerd, so this is very outside of my spectrum of like knowledge, but I feel like it should be as easy as like a button, like this project is an internal job.
So the settings for that job are now in the project section gonna go, okay, so we need to pull from balance sheet, not my p and l.
But apparently it's
Dan DeLong: not
Shanna Quinn: that easy.
Dan DeLong: And our hope is once that is launched we'll have Shauna come back on and we'll talk about, what we've, seen or what we can see an Intuit enterprise suite and whether or not it is [00:17:00] the bee's knees of the contractor edition, or if there is maybe some short sight shortfalls not short sights, but yeah.
Shortcomings. There we go. That's what looking for, in an Intuit enterprise suite. Another aspect and feature is this idea of dimensions that you can associate with, with your transactions, which is basically just another layer, another pivotal option that you can use to. To define those transactions.
Do you feel like that adds an, additional option when we're speaking about job costing in that regard?
Shanna Quinn: I do. I think that, but we're micro people, right? Like we can keep digging in and, because that's how we. [00:18:00] Are able to determine how profitable off of a certain item or a certain expense our clients are being.
So we're micro people. So I feel like it's definitely something and a tool that would benefit us. On a business owner side, not so much. And I think from a contractor especially. They were, they're like, can you just summarize and can you gimme the cliff note version of what I'm looking at?
Essentially, it's how all of my clients are about their financials. But I think yes, definitely as an accounting professional and you wanna offer that extra added level of service or just be real, the most amazing bookkeeper for a contractor. Having any additional layer of information on certain transactions is always gonna be of a benefit.
Dan DeLong: Yeah. So that might be something that fills the gap of what you're talking about with those, [00:19:00] with the non, with the balance sheet side of the job costing. So me well, to be continued there. Wait I lost my place in my questions that I was gonna ask. Okay.
QuickBooks Advanced vs. Plus
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Dan DeLong: So we, you mentioned.
Plus in advance what is the big difference or the big advantage of, advanced over plus when it comes to job costing and trying to figure out what might be the best option which plan might be better for one over the.
Shanna Quinn: Plus is a very, I wanna say like an entry, basic level.
It's also the most affordable out of the two. So if you have a smaller client, it definitely makes sense to utilize the plus platform over advanced. But QuickBooks Plus and advanced everything, income and expense-wise. Oh my goodness. All [00:20:00] choked up can get assigned to, can you get assigned to a cost code or an expense and on a project level, location level, a class level so all of your levels essentially are there in both of those platforms.
The difference is however, in the advanced side that you can actually do. Estimate versus actual on your project costs, which is not something you could do in the plus version and a really awesome tool within QuickBooks Advanced. And there's more reporting options. There's AI generating and automated reports that you can build.
So that's really an awesome tool to have. The other thing is Advance really comes with a lot better controls over your users, which maybe. Some people are thinking that's just a general functionality of advanced. But if you're utilizing it for, Hey, I want this person to only [00:21:00] be able to do purchase orders, or I want this person.
So it is still a part of that project process and job costing portion because you wanna have maybe your project managers or job supers be the one that are processing those pos but not seeing anything else. Within there. So you're able to really drill down onto the level of access for each of your users, which is a, is also a really great tool to have.
Dan DeLong: Good. And the, another feature is the custom fields that you have. Yes. In inside of online advance, you have 12 per list elements. So basically 48. Custom fields that you can define and use those on as another layer of dimensions. Yes. Whereas you have but three yes, in, in plus, and [00:22:00] they're not really definable.
You find that those custom fields are something that you need to use in in that.
Shanna Quinn: Yes, definitely because especially when we are allowed to assign it to a form and then create that into H bracket. Field, it's definitely really helpful. When we're generating pos, we might have a need to have a custom customized field for us internally to track certain things, and the pos are still General V, VP or PO.
There's no PVPO, there's no warranty, PO options. So it is a great tool to have within that and then use that as a way to pull your VPO sort of list by job out of as a report. So definitely, really really great tools to have. You have to know that they're, you have to know how to utilize it properly though, [00:23:00] right?
And setting it up and managing it properly. So just like everything else that's in QuickBooks, not understanding the full story of how to set it up properly, not just from an accounting perspective, but from a tracking perspective and consistency is really important.
Custom Fields and Third-Party Integrations
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Dan DeLong: And one of the, especially when it comes to custom fields one of the limitations of QuickBooks online when you're using a outside third party software that's feeding into QuickBooks is they have not opened up the API.
Fully to custom fields, right? So to to those custom fields. So that's something to just keep in mind. If you do have a client that's using an alt an outside third party software, that's maybe they're, because [00:24:00] maybe the invoicing or the estimating inside of QuickBooks is not as fully functioning as they would like to for their industry.
A i a billing for example if that's something that they need to do in this kind of industry, and they're doing something outside of that bear in mind that if they're utilizing custom fields in advanced they're going to be. Sorely disappointed. Yeah. When they try to integrate those two.
Shanna Quinn: And when you're doing certain jobs, so like contractors, if you're gonna do a state or county job, they'll typically ask for prevailing wage reports and all of that. And that too is not something that QuickBooks is yet offering, I don't think in their payroll service at any level. Yeah, there's definitely some, still some limitations, but if they're using a third party product for something like job costing, [00:25:00] whether it be like nullify or jobber or job tread or builder tread, they have all the functionalities that I would likely be setting up the custom fields within QuickBooks to make it work for me.
So as long as they've got. An ability for it to track properly and come in properly from a financial perspective. But having that information and being able to drill down is important.
Dan DeLong: So would you say that if they are using something inside of QuickBooks in general for their end-to-end process of sales and estimating and invoicing and that sort of stuff if they are using a different.
Software would you say it would be better to use? Plus with that pairing plus with that software as opposed to advance because you're kinda limiting [00:26:00] bells and whistles that you're paying for inside of QuickBooks. The other software is really handling that
Shanna Quinn: I would say absolutely.
There's only one exception and that's if you have a tiered business, right? So if you've got multiple entities that from a tax perspective are rolling up underneath this main entity, even though you've got that third party set up, for your outside job costing to manage all of that stuff.
Still having at least one file from advance so you can pull those intercompany files easily. For those multi-tiered businesses, I would still at least utilize advance from that perspective 'cause you're gonna save so much more time at the end of the year or quarterly or monthly. However often the reports get pulled and jointly combined to send out to the CPA and the client because it will save you time.
Dan DeLong: And you utilize like the spreadsheet sync to do that? Or do you use, some [00:27:00] other third party, reporting software to, to do that?
Shanna Quinn: I use, I What was the first one that you said?
Dan DeLong: Spreadsheet sync, which is included in
Shanna Quinn: Yeah,
Dan DeLong: in advanced,
Shanna Quinn: yeah.
Dan DeLong: Got it. Okay.
Shanna Quinn: I've also built out, before they had advanced, I had built out one that was easier.
Where I could copy and paste over, download, upload into several sheets, and then I made a general p and l out of that for my header. And so everything just got mapped over. But this is, a little still a little bit easier and less likely to have errors, right? All of our handbuilt, Google or Excel documents, you mess up one formula and the whole document becomes like out of whack.
I can take out human error if I can.
Payroll and Time Tracking
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Dan DeLong: Now with regards to job [00:28:00] costing and and payroll and time and those types of things do you recommend, in order to get the most out of their job tracking and costing? Do you recommend, the integrated QuickBooks payroll, or do you.
Can you still do those functions in an outside payroll service, like a DP on pay gusto?
Shanna Quinn: So you can still use an outside payroll processing. I would still suggest using the time tracker within QuickBooks. But it's more of a manual process. So you could use a third party product to do the dump at the end of your do the data dump of here's what our payroll was, and then have a document that will split it out by job.
But it is to have everything in one spot that it definitely is a little bit easier. It flows better, and it's almost, I, [00:29:00] it's obviously almost immediate in QuickBooks when they came out with the project portion initially. The taxes were not being assigned to a job, but now they are. Over the last several years, they've added that in.
So it's not just a wage, it's actually now. So from an expense perspective, if I had a guy work eight hours at a job, the associated taxes and the, that the employer is responsible for, and the wages are now assigned properly to the job. So you have a true understanding of your level of expense. Associated to payroll, but it's also utilizing that, that cost functionality in the projects.
So we, on a annual basis, whenever our clients undergo a workers' comp audit.
Updating Tax Rates and Payroll Costs
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Shanna Quinn: If there's a change in their rates, we automatically go in. We update it if there's a higher or a fire or an increase in wages. Every [00:30:00] year at the beginning of the year, we make sure the tax levels are still the same. But we update those cost rates on a constant basis as the data changes at the tax rate changes or whatever to make sure that we're calculating properly what a tax rate should be so that we then know.
What our billable rate should be for our clients too, or their bill employees billable rates.
Time Tracking and Payroll Allocation
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Dan DeLong: So with regards to time if you're not using QuickBooks for payroll, it gets a little more broader, with regards to time and. Allocating the time towards specific jobs because there's a larger cost when it comes to, payroll with all of the other things that employers have to do or right.
Company matches and union. [00:31:00] Dues and all of those that workers' compensation and all of those things that they end up having their costs to them that, maybe they, they want to allocate to those jobs. And when you're just tracking time, you don't get that insight right.
And that's the key differentiator between running your core payroll or your, payroll inside of QuickBooks. As opposed to what you would get from an outside payroll service and just tracking the, time.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah. It's the micro for time and then it's Right. It's the macro for time, but then the drill down of, okay, but we had time, we had taxes.
We don't have taxes. State taxes here in Florida for, thank you, all your Disney patrons out there, but you've got your, you've got most other states. A lot of other states have more [00:32:00] taxes, more income tax. Some of 'em go down to county level taxes. You've got the payroll taxes that then aren't being accounted for if you're just tracking time.
You, like you mentioned, your workers' comp, employee benefits, those kinds of things. And those are all things that we do track and we do use in that employee cost section.
Dan DeLong: Yeah. Now you said a couple terms and I wanna just enhance them just to make sure that people are aware.
Understanding Prevailing Wage
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Dan DeLong: What is prevailing wage? Because I keep thinking of like a wind, a prevailing wind and sailing. So what is prevailing wage and why is it important for
Shanna Quinn: If a contractor works on a state level, like a government mandated type of job, whether it is a building or street level or something, there has to be this.
Specific set of reports that are provided at the, each [00:33:00] per payroll that's processed. They call it prevailing wages because of the additional information that is, has to be provided alongside of those. So there are certain payroll systems that utilize and provide that information and provide the specific reports related to it.
But QuickBooks does not provide those reports. I was told it was coming sometime in the next year. 'cause now I have a client that we are using QuickBooks payroll for. That's one a. Government job that will have to start doing those reports.
Challenges with Government Contracts
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Shanna Quinn: So now we're looking at alternative options to move him off of QuickBooks payroll in order for us to meet the government standards of the reports that have to get provided.
Dan DeLong: Yeah that's a great question to to ask when you're especially if the if it's a new company that's coming to you looking for, service recommendations [00:34:00] to say, Hey, which is the best option? That would be a good question to ask them if during your discovery is do you need this?
And okay, then that rules out this option. And then you, now you have to weigh your options because you're gonna get better reporting if they run in QuickBooks. If they run their payroll inside of QuickBooks online when it comes to job costing, but then you're not gonna have that functionality.
Do you ever, force QuickBooks payroll to do it because you're getting more out of it? Or how do you weigh those options? Just like
Shanna Quinn: we weigh it. Most of the time we find out that they've won these government contracts after the fact, right? It's that's when our clients are like, oh, we going, we got this new job.
And we're like, cool. How do we handle this?
Custom Solutions for Job Costing
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Shanna Quinn: In the past we've been able to work with the, [00:35:00] there's always a individual contact information that's given to us on the job that we have to communicate with pretty frequently about the. Cost associated. We have to invoice a very specific way as well on a lot of these jobs.
So we're, we've been able historically to work it out. This particular one that just won the contract however, is in California and they're not wanting to bend the rules with us. So that's why now we are not even bend the rules, but we could pull the information. It just all isn't coming from a certified source.
It's coming, this particular client, we're having to make the decision to move him off of that, of the QuickBooks online. So we're still gonna be able to provide him with the job costing information. It's just, like I said, gonna have more of a manual process because the, we're gonna have to export out of the third party 'cause it doesn't import into QuickBooks Online, only QuickBooks [00:36:00] desktop.
And then from there we'll have to manually enter. And uses, we built out a document, a spreadsheet. So it will manually calculate over taxes and, wages paid out by person, by into each job for each one, but it will have to be a journal entry process.
Dan DeLong: Ew.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah.
Dan DeLong: But, those are the things we have to deal with when it comes to, a short.
Short sight or a short shortcoming, of the functionality that you're working. Have you have you ever found a perfect solution for, this? Or do you find that like a lot of different companies, they do things or they want things in a certain way or certain requirements and then you end up having [00:37:00] to.
Bridge bridge the gap between the systems and the reality of what they're trying to do.
Shanna Quinn: We build a lot of bridges, Dan.
Dan DeLong: Okay. And do you have a contractor to help you do that?
Shanna Quinn: This one,
Building Custom Reports
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Shanna Quinn: we build a lot of custom reports out to fill the gaps of what sometimes our system is not providing. And I have all of the clients that we sub. Court at our, at my firm, we're, none of them don't do anything the same. We have several that work with, especially when we're working with an engineer, like an engineer job or we're working with an architect, what, each of them wanna see versus the same kind of job, but maybe somebody didn't hire an architect to do it.
We're just, we got the drawings and now they've released our client in to build the house for them. We're still [00:38:00] having to, we're still seeing that things are just managed differently. People also interpret things differently in different ways too. So our clients also ask a little bit more of us to provide things to make the clients happy so that they're not having to field a lot of questions 'cause that's not what they wanna spend their time doing.
So we do build a lot of extras to fill in gaps where needed, which is frequently,
Dan DeLong: but the core functions inside of twit, the projects the classes, the, the cost code, setting them up as items that's the main. Thing when it comes to setting up your job costing properly.
Yeah. Is that once you do your due diligence, setting that up, then as long as they're following the prescribed workflows that you give [00:39:00] them, they don't have to worry about tracking their costs because they just QuickBooks is just doing all that in the background. Is that? Is that what you find that Yeah.
I guess to use the contractor or the carpenter adage of measure twice, cut once.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah. My dad would say four or five times, but yeah,
Dan DeLong: four or five times.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah, this, the source is still, the organization of what we put into QuickBooks is still going to, is still very important on how we export things. And then those fields that we've mentioned, the custom fields, the different levels within classes and locations and stuff that you can use.
When I first started in Plex online, this could be tangent, so I'm sorry. I [00:40:00] had a client that had a very specific way of wanting to see something over a seven year period of working together and supporting him. It was like towards the end where I was telling him he got too big he needs to hire internally.
This is not the one that we helped me clean up and move on to online. It was a separate one. He, I had calculated how much time it took me to build out the job workbook from start to finish, and it was almost 120 something hours building out this workbook. But it was as easy once we were finally done with it that it was as easy as export and copy paste and then everything filtered out properly and it gave you.
You could go as micro, you can go as micro as now I'm stumbling on my words, but you can get minute information and you can get a big picture. [00:41:00] So we made it so that even the individual job workbooks talked to a front page that actually did a comparison about how these jobs performed over this last several years and how his margins.
Differentiated from the same kind of project that he worked on six years ago to what he had going now so that he could track down all of that. So I still think that, as many upgrades as QuickBooks is ever gonna make, it's never gonna be a one size fits all for anybody from a visual perspective.
So there's always still gonna be a need for some kind of additional. Workbook for our clients to sne things the way that they need to or the way that their clients need to be able to track.
Dan DeLong: Yeah.
Shanna Quinn: What kind of, which basically I, I really love building workbooks and Excel spreadsheets, so it works for me too.[00:42:00]
Dan DeLong: That's your that's your tool of the trade?
Shanna Quinn: Yes.
Dan DeLong: Swiss Army Knife.
Shanna Quinn: That's right. Its one.
Common Pitfalls in Accounting for Contractors
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Dan DeLong: What common pitfalls or if you just be able to tell somebody, Hey, do this first, or it'll save you, give you a lot of headache or hassle later. What common pitfalls have you seen accountants or businesses in the, those special trades? What, what, what, what.
could they avoid and, pretty easily that would save them a lot of headache in the future.
Shanna Quinn: I think from an accounting perspective, I think that what could save, our clients a lot of time is being able to have a real [00:43:00] conversation with them about how things are gonna flow. Contractors are really great.
Building, managing the business side is not always their strong suit. Just like me and tech and being creative, Pinterest is my creativity side. I, and I need step by step in order for me to get through everything. 'cause I'm not naturally a creative person.
We can't all be. Fantastic at everything. If you are hats off to you because that's awesome. But knowing how the business is gonna work, knowing sitting down and having a true idea of what your, here's what I expect, here's what I want out of that business. Here are just like, for accounting professionals, here's what my ideal client and my ideal build look [00:44:00] is going to be.
Because you don't wanna just take on, you wanna take on every job. And you, but you do wanna understand the market. You do wanna understand how things are performing, what your competitors are doing. All of that. That was a lot of more than one thing. Sorry.
Dan DeLong: So you'll have to break, go back and break that down into multiple steps. Okay. As far as multiple pitfalls,
Shanna Quinn: yes. There's just so much that goes into building.
Dan DeLong: Just have a flashback to the Atari 2,600 game with the pitfall. Pitfall Harry, he had many things to jump over.
Shanna Quinn: There really is, there just is a lot to, and, everyone knows this that's probably on this call and you, Dan, is that it, there's not one thing that you have to think about in order to set up [00:45:00] and run a successful business. You're constantly juggling and you have to be able to flow with how things are going. Maybe I would say the number one thing would be continuing education and making sure you're constantly aware of market.
That, and how that is impacting the the, field. And from a broad perspective, but also within your area.
Dan DeLong: And you brought up an interesting, dynamic of this industry and I don't know that it's necessarily. Unique to, to, to contractors, but I think of all the different industries that are out there, like legal and contractor and nonprofit.
Especially with with, contractors. It, seems like [00:46:00] the business owners that start the business, as you mentioned. Builders are really good at building things, so they know their trade, but,
I think where they get themselves in trouble is the business aspect of their, of building their business.
Yeah. Because a lawyer, a doctor, psychologist all of the things that you go to school for to, learn how to do a task, they never teach you. How to run your own business.
But that's, that seems to be the end all goal is that I'm gonna do this for myself. And that's where working with somebody like Ana in your life is going to help steer you in the right direction.
Or we would hope.
Shanna Quinn: I hope so.[00:47:00]
Dan DeLong: Because you bring the breadth of experience from working with other folks in that trade, and that is the great leverage that you can then bring. Like that, worksheet of that took you 120 hours. You could maybe leverage that for other clients,
Shanna Quinn: yeah, absolutely. And we do we're also a profit first firm.
So we've built out a, I've got a workbook full of different types and ways of tracking and doing our profit first calculations and analysis for our different clients of different entity or different types, whether interior designer or a plumber or a home builder. Because everything is done differently, and that's not all one size fits all for those clients and how we're doing things.
It definitely is, I think you have to have [00:48:00] passion for what you're doing when you work with a certain trade, contractors are not really, and we've talked about this, they're not the easiest trade to go out to support because you are working with somebody that potentially, you might have to really like, bother a lot to get an answer on something.
But I think in the end, one of my clients was the most unorganized, but he builds such beautiful homes and. There's such joy to the clients that he brings out of that. 'cause I get to do I'm the client facing from an accounting perspective and I get to hear all that wonderful feedback.
And eventually he does finally get stuff to me. And I've I've gotten my. I call it my, like slightly threatening ways of receiving data where I might have to send a text where I'm lighting a fire underneath you [00:49:00] saying you, I need you to send this. But I think having a passion for it like I do, I think that's, important.
When you're supporting a specific trade, especially. That of a contractor because it is a little bit more chasing. It is a little bit more work, and very detailed. Work is necessary out of it as well to make sure you're capturing everything properly to guide your client in the best possible way as well.
Dan DeLong: And I can imagine, it's probably a pretty well male dominated industry. Yes. Do you find that there's mansplaining, for lack of a better word when, they are talking to you about their business or anything like that?
Shanna Quinn: I honestly have not come across a client or [00:50:00] even a prospect that has, talked to me differently than I think he would just discuss or talk with somebody that respectful.
I guess that's the term that I want to use. I do. And all of my discovery calls when I have that with prospects, I do always mention my family. I wanna get a little bit more personal with them as well, so I can get some information to see what their personality type is, to make sure we are going to be a good fit.
And I also like to ask who's managing their information right now? And if they say that they have a, an accountant or they had a bookkeeper or my wife, I get really excited if it's the wife. 'cause she always wants things to work out really well, obviously. 'cause she's probably invested personally.
So she's a source that I can go to and she could do the threatening in person as opposed to me sending a text of a fire. [00:51:00] But
Dan DeLong: I
Shanna Quinn: don't,
Dan DeLong: and her threat, her threats might go a little further, than Shauna
Shanna Quinn: said. Yeah.
Although we always know where our clients live and their habits based off their charges.
Dan DeLong: Exactly. This gonna
Shanna Quinn: kind gonna and decline your Starbucks tomorrow.
The Future of Bookkeeping for Contractors
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Dan DeLong: So this really segues really nicely into. The future of what it is that that you and I are working on and, more, more importantly what you are working on. I just happen to be a part of it. Sorry. So talk about the, what that stands for and what, you're looking to be able to do and allow people to leverage who might be in, interested in these trades and being more.
Profitable in these job costs?
Shanna Quinn: [00:52:00] Yeah, absolutely. My firm celebrated 10 years in May. I took the summer to decompress and enjoy busing my son around all his soccer trainings. And then dove back into sort of this business mind that I had, I've had in mind for many years and just haven't had the time to really devote to it.
So now with one of my larger clients bringing things back in house, I got 70 hours of my life back on a weekly basis and have devoted it to. To building out the concept of bookkeeping for contractors group. So it's a play off of my firm name bookkeeping for contractors. It's basically, it's a, it, we call it internally the system is called a contractor growth framework. So there's two different pathways. We support accounting professionals and we support trade [00:53:00] owners trade small business owners. So what I'm trying to do is to share my passion, share my experience, and my what I've learned of supporting these trades over the last 20 something years.
To share that with other accounting professionals that either have some experience in it and just wanna learn more or just have that accounting background and want a niche in something. And this is something that sort of has stuck out to you as a niche that you'd be interested in. So we've created this accounting professional platform where there's different levels that you can join. And Dan and I are partnering up to do this job costing series. And then on the school of bookkeeping which our members will have access to there'll be these training videos and additional training information.
And then there's a lot more that comes out of [00:54:00] out of being a member, obviously with with us, not just the educational. I worked hard to create a lot of really great discounts utilizing different products and applications to support your internally, but also as a firm owner, but also as a supporting a trade.
And then the other side starts January 1st. I'm really excited for this one. This the other side is having actual trade owners come to us looking for accounting professionals to support them from an accounting perspective. And then we go to our membership database and see who we have that would be a better, would be a great fit for them.
And then put those two in contact with each other. So it's also doing placement and there's client op client opportunities.
Dan DeLong: So you'll be nurturing accounting professionals in these trades. And then ultimately. Y you'll be able to vet them for a new client that might [00:55:00] come in that will be like, Hey, this person will be a great fit for you.
So you can be like the job costing matchmaker.
Shanna Quinn: That's right. When it comes, I'll have to update my title. My title.
Dan DeLong: That's Right. You'll be the yenta of, of job costing.
Shanna Quinn: Yes.
Dan DeLong: All right. I do, I did put in the in the comments link for the, B four CG Group. You can always learn a click that, learn a little more for it.
And we also have a QR code up there as well. So if you're watching this, now that, Shauna has caught up to reality and, got some notes that your video was a little laggy, oh. But it looks like now you're. Your, lips are matching what you're saying. So it's, we've caught up, we've caught up to reality.
Shanna Quinn: I'll have to call At&t,
Dan DeLong: but if you're, thank you. At t. But yes, if [00:56:00] you're watching on any of the social platforms that we have and you wanna learn more about that, but you can't see the link in the comments you can. Snap a picture of the QR code and that'll take you to the exact same place.
So next week we'll be continuing our series with. With Chana on this job costing journey through, through that. So if you, haven't had enough of the two of us yammering about job costing, there will be more.
Shanna Quinn: There's more.
Dan DeLong: But wait, there's seven more weeks of this stuff.
No. Six more weeks of this stuff.
Shanna Quinn: Yeah.
Dan DeLong: We appreciate you joining us today. Sorry we went a little long here, but we got a little chatty as we were trying to make sure that we cover the foundations and fit of, job costing. And we look forward to seeing you again on another workshop next week.
Have a great week everyone. [00:57:00]
Shanna Quinn: Thank you. [00:58:00]
